The Sky Is Slightly Sagging
Topic: News, SBC, SBC News| Written by: Paul Littleton|No. It isn’t falling, but it appears to be in disrepair. Ed Stetzer has come out with Part Two of his analysis on SBC growth trends (or un-growth trends, as the case may be).
The wailing and gnashing of teeth has personally been quite unexpected. I never would have thought that his three-pronged prescription: seek to broaden convention participation, quit fighting so much, and get focused on the gospel, would have been viewed as so much poor medicine. I guess I continue to underestimate the penchant for people to deny what appears to be such clear reality.
I, like Todd, am a little incredulous that people would propose that the SBC has all of a sudden gotten a conscience about church membership or that a significant number of churches have gotten the will to act on that conscience. We’ve tried to address the regenerate church membership issue in our church and I continue to hear objections that “they might come back” or “aren’t we telling them we don’t care about them any more?” Admittedly, I’ve only been here four years and this issue has not necessarily been what I’ve been overly focused on. We’ve had our talks, but I’m not going to shove it down people’s throats. That’s just not how I tend to lead. We’ve been trying to talk more about missions, generosity, the gospel and community impact.
But maybe there are a significant number of churches cleaning up their rolls. Given the convention’s inability to express a positive resolution in favor of such a thing I remain quite skeptical. Let’s not forget that one chairman of the Resolutions Committee actually argued, publicly, that we should keep them on our rolls as prospects. And his argument won the day. This was but two years ago.
Now it appears that Thom Rainer, LifeWay statistician Cliff Tharp and Southern professor Chuck Lawless agree that the trends do not look good. You know where I stand (here, here, here and here).
As Ed says at the end of this second article, “…the fact is that we don’t need to say this is not real. It’s deadly real and has eternal significance. If trends continue, we are entering a period of decline and we need to repent and ask God for His power to change.”
Right you are, Ed. Right you are.
April 28th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
Either…
1) The pastors and other messengers were overtaken by a sudden wave of conscience that last couple years, and came down with a burning desire to fix the thing themselves,or..
2) They voted the motion down because they DIDN’T want to fix it.
IF # 2 were the case, I might expect God to respond. I think He has.
April 28th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
You know, I try to give people the benefit of the doubt. I’ve done that for some time now and I’ve continued to dialogue with people that I disagree with on these issues. But, I have found that whether it be Frank Page’s election as president, the PPL research from Lifeway, the Garner Motion, or now this information, people have an incredible ability to stick their heads in the sand and reinterpret events to their own liking. We are in trouble. If CR heroes were not in charge and the moderates were still in charge, would the people who are now defending the direction of the SBC be doing so? We need some objectivity and we need to able to see what is really going on. Sadly, few want to see it. That just guarantees that Stetzer’s words will go unheeded and we will continue on the same course that we have been going.
That suits some people just fine, I guess.
April 28th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
How can this be? And why is this man, Dr Stetzer, not be sent packing for making such a report? For years now we have been constantly been told glowing reports of CP giving, baptisms, new church starts, new missionaries commissioned, wonderful revivals across the land, etc. So have current and past leadership been decieving us or are we being decieved by such a new report as this. Either we have been lied to or what?
April 28th, 2008 at 7:31 pm
“For years now we have been constantly been told glowing reports of CP giving, baptisms, new church starts, new missionaries commissioned, wonderful revivals across the land, etc.”
All of those things HAVE happened. We’ve just left out the other stuff.
April 28th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
Exceptional results–basically, what Bro. Stetzer indicates the SBC isn’t seeing these days–come from the work of teams, but from nowhere else. The SBC, however, seems more composed of “warring factions” at this time and our congregations individually–at best–are “learning teams” but not “high performance teams”.
We must get it together; the world is depending on it, and God has put it in our hands (Matthew 28).
April 28th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
Alan, If as you all those wonderful report were accurate over the past several years as you say, then why are beginning to lose ground at a steady rate? I have been optimistic for a long time but am beginning to have serious doubts about the SBC leadership that seems to be more and more recyled.
April 28th, 2008 at 9:11 pm
“If as you all those wonderful report were accurate over the past several years as you say, then why are beginning to lose ground at a steady rate?”
Could it be time to turn up the heat because the money is not flowing like it used to?
April 28th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
I was wondering if contempoarary SBC seminary-educated preachers still care to preach about the consequenses of sin, Christ crucified and call sinners unto repentance or has that now been deemed adverse to the goal of growing the numbers in a congregation and the SBC?
April 28th, 2008 at 10:40 pm
It isn’t about the lack of money, it’s about the lack of a compelling vision.
April 28th, 2008 at 11:36 pm
Marty,
Bingo.
April 29th, 2008 at 1:21 am
LivingDust,
I may not be hearing what you are saying correctly, but if you are interpreting Ed Stetzer’s report as in some way recommending that SBCers cease preaching sin, Christ crucified and repentance for the purpose of numerical growth, you may be off a bit. I don’t think Ed Stetzer would, in a million years, ever recommend that.
But maybe I misunderstood what you were trying to say?…
Jason
April 29th, 2008 at 7:02 am
“. . . it’s about the lack of a compelling vision . . .”
. . . And a sustaining way, and also overcoming the human tendency to latency (part of the problem is spiritual, the other part is administrative–both parts relate to leadership, too little of which there is).
April 29th, 2008 at 9:14 am
“It isn’t about the lack of money, it’s about the lack of a compelling vision.”
No offense, Mr. Duran, but God already gave us one. It is perfect and we don’t need a new one. Perhaps a bigger problem is the cult of personality and pastors as CEO’s.
April 29th, 2008 at 9:19 am
I fully agree with Ed’s admonition: repent of our wrongs and ask God for His power to change. I agree totally.
Not because Ed said it. Ed’s words alone mean nothing. I agree totally because he has summarized God’s Word: repent, pray, THEN change comes.
You see, that’s the promise of God Word. When we repent, He hears. When we seek His face, He hears. When we confess, He hears. THEN and only THEN will true change come.
Will that change mean that the SBC will grow? Will that mean that the SBC will again be a powerhouse among denominations? No. But the real question is, so what? God’s promise never includes a certain denomination. His promise comes to His people, Baptist or not, who repent, who seek His face, who confesses.
Isn’t that what matters most? I commit myself to repenting, to praying, to seeking His face. Can I challenge you to join me?
April 29th, 2008 at 9:46 am
Mr. Heartsill, You are dead on. Part of our problem is that we HAVE been a ‘powerhouse’ and we lack humility.
April 29th, 2008 at 9:47 am
David refers to “part of the problem is both spiritual and administrative”… Could it be that the spiritual part has been greatly affected by an often appearing arrogance coming from the administrative side? In this time of easy transportation (disregarding current gas prices) why are there not greater numbers attending the annual conventions? I am of the opinion that it has more to do with being discouraged with leadership.
April 29th, 2008 at 10:04 am
rsc,I agree that we lack humility. While that lack of humility isn’t easy to address from our perspective, the directive from God is clear, concise, and communicated often in His Word. At one point, Baptists were known as “people of the Book.” God help us to return to THOSE days–may we be known by the BOOK we keep!
April 29th, 2008 at 10:32 am
Statistics are easier to report than to interpret, and I am no statistician. Two things strike me.
First, it seems clear that the SBC is not prospering numerically. This is something we should take seriously and deal with.
Second, I am amazed at the attitudes of some of my blogging friends who have dismissed this evidence as if it meant nothing.
I appreciate your balanced viewpoint here.
April 29th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
rsc,
I don’t mean to speak for Marty, but since I gave him a “Bingo” I’ll at least speak for me. The lack of a compelling vision isn’t about not having one at all. Of course, in that regard you are correct. One has been given to us already. But it is possible for that compelling vision to either get lost or become overshadowed by something else and in that way become “lacking.”
I’ve argued elsewhere that the vision of the SBC today is the Conservative Resurgence. It is what we constantly give homage to, what we regularly talk about and celebrate. Hardly a conversation goes by in the Baptist blogosphere where some mention is not made of the Conservative Resurgence. It is the vision. Supporting it. Maintaining it. Keeping it alive. Continuing it. We are not a gospel-centered denomination. We are a Conservative Resurgence-centered denomination, and that is not a compelling vision.
April 29th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
elizajane:
I do not think you have been deceived or lied to about the numbers or the glowing reports. The numbers say what the numbers say and folks have been reporting that. However, like David says, statistics are easier to report than interpret. They are a lot like Biblical hermeneutics, “It says that, but does it mean that?”
April 29th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
“We are not a gospel-centered denomination. We are a Conservative Resurgence-centered denomination, and that is not a compelling vision.”
Well, I can certainly agree with that. Mr. Heartsill gave us the answer to that problem. Not an easy answer but the right answer.
BTW: When I worked with the Japanese, they had 100 year vision statements for their organizations. They knew they would not be around for to see them.
April 29th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
As others have expressed, I too am not surprised by the “decline”. This is true because I have encountered numerous fellows like myself, those who have walked away from the SBC. No offense but it has almost become a caricature of itself. Known for what we are against more than what we are for, and by being “people of the book”. Again, no offense but what does that mean? Too often we throw out these nice little baptist cliches and we all nod our heads but do we even know what we are talking about? I spoke to a baptist pastor once who had recently been to a retreat and said that the speaker was very biblical, I asked him what he meant. He paused and said that he heard a lot of stuff that was totally irrelevant to everyday life. Is that what being “people of the book” means. Tossing out “truths” that have no relevance on everyday life. If so no wonder the SBC is in decline.
April 29th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
People of the book may seem like a cliche, but I didn’t mean it that way. My point was simple. At one point, Baptists were more known for their stand on the Scripture, for teaching and preaching the Bible. Now, we seem to be focused on politics, correcting each other, and questioning every motive and word spoken or written. That truly is sad.
April 29th, 2008 at 6:52 pm
Jason,
I’m one of those cynical types who believes that the decline in new, regenerate members of Southern Baptist congregations can be directly and significantly attributed to the predominance of non-Gospel related preaching emenationg from Southern Baptist pulpits. Sinners are convicted of their depraved condition when they are challenged on their sinful lifestyle, clearly told of the consequenses of their sin and rebellion, called to repentance and challenged to publically respond to the prompting and calling to life by the Holy Spirit. I hope that clarifies my position on why the SBC is declining.
April 29th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
Living Dust,
I definitely hear where you’re coming from. As a matter of fact, you and I are probably in agreement on many things. I was just pointing out that I think Ed Stetzer is as conservative as you and I are on such matters. He may see things being played out a bit differently in certain contexts, but I’m pretty comfortable with saying that he as greatly concerned that the Gospel - in its fullness - be preached.
Blessings,
J
April 29th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
The “spiritual” I meant above is character-related; followers of Christ increasingly with the qualities of Christ don’t continually sit alone in their living rooms while their neighbors remain unsaved–love gets those believers up from their easy-chairs and across the yard to seek a conversation about eternity.
The “administrative” I meant above is way-related; even Billy Graham and his evangelism team must have some sustainable way to reach out to others with the gospel (Dr. Graham has been doing the same thing over and over for more than 40 years–that’s “sustainable”) which can be taught and learned.
April 30th, 2008 at 10:22 am
Paul, you have made a profound statement in your comment #19. I had never heard it put quite that way, and when I read it, I realized you were exactly correct: the CR HAS become the vision of the SBC at large. The last annual meeting I attended was in Greensboro, and there I heard speaker after speaker–many of whom were much younger than my 55 years–refer to it, often in instances where it had litle or no connection to their topic. I have even heard preachers say things like, “It’s not that big a deal to me, but I know that if I don’t acknowledge it (and inerrancy), I will not be heard at all.” And as you say, it is inevitably mentioned on virtually every blog, regardless of the subject. The CR has become our vision and our goal, rather than the Kingdom of God. What can be done, other than what is already being done, to shift us back to a gospel-centered vision?
April 30th, 2008 at 10:39 am
John,
I remember hearing John Maxwell once say that he could tell what’s really important to a person in a 20 minute conversation. What’s important will inevitably come up in that 20 minutes.
What can be done? We can talk a lot more about the gospel than about the Conservative Resurgence. I’m not simply talking about on blogs, though I’m sure that wouldn’t hurt either. I’m talking about at Pastor’s Conferences and Conventions and especially in our local churches. I don’t know that the words “Conservative Resurgence” have ever graced my lips in a church service. Ever. And I hope to keep the streak alive.
April 30th, 2008 at 10:56 am
Well, at least Jeremiah Wright is not a Southern Baptist.
Louis
April 30th, 2008 at 11:04 am
Paul, in comment #28, I totally agree with you! And have a follow up. Not only has “conservative resurgence” never been said in a sermon of mine, never will it! But then again, I’ve never been interested in climbing the ladder in the convention or state. I hope my career goal has been to serve God, where He places me, until He moves me. But, unfortunately, that attitude doesn’t lead to invites to the Pastor’s Conference…or Convention Sermons…
Does that trouble it? Nope. Took longer to type those words than I’ve ever thought about them!
April 30th, 2008 at 11:25 am
I think that a delineation needs to be made between the growth of churches,baptisms, etc inside the USA and outside the USA. Inside the USA is what I believe Ed Stetzer to be talking about OUTSIDE the USA the growth has been phenomenal especially in the last ten years.
so I think either this lack of growth is a symptom of something wrong with the sbc or something changing in the USA and it’s probably both.
April 30th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
It seems to me the ones who use the term “CR” are those who were against the “CR”.
We need to be about preaching the Gospel. Now what exactly is the Gospel is a much tougher question.
I think the folks at Together for the Gospel did a great job at demonstrating that vision. I think the convention should use that as a model to pursue. Any thoughts!
From the Southern Baptist Geneva
Robert I Masters
April 30th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
when is someone going to recognize that its not about denominational employees or trustees or seminary presidents and that nothing these guys and gals do or dont do is going to change anything? The blame for sagging stats is solely on our local churches. That’s it.
It has nothing to do with narrowing the parameters, PPL’s, or women seminary profs. The fact is our churches our not getting it done. We as SBC pastors are not leading our churches to evangelize. It rests with us.
April 30th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
adam,
Who here made reference to a denominational employee, trustee or seminary president? The only reference to anyone in an official capacity in denominational life was to those in the post who have simply done the reporting or commented on it, but certainly no one has blamed them for it.
April 30th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
Paul,
where did I say that I was referenceing anyone on this post?
April 30th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
adam,
Perhaps I misread you. However, you began your comment with the words, “when is someone going to recognize that its not….” I thought both the post and most of those who have commented already expressed just such a recognition. It sounded as if you were not giving them credit for recognizing just what you yourself expressed.
April 30th, 2008 at 10:55 pm
“I think the folks at Together for the Gospel did a great job at demonstrating that vision. I think the convention should use that as a model to pursue. Any thoughts!
From the Southern Baptist Geneva
Robert I Masters”
Ironic, Mr. Masters, that a few of those guys would not qualify to be SBC missionaries. So how could we possibly use their ideas for the convention?
May 2nd, 2008 at 9:45 pm
I’d suggest that a “focus on the gospel” include being open to the Holy Spirit’s leadership in the churches. Acts 1:8, and the results recorded in Acts 2:42-47, is the solution.
If Lifeway’s figures on the age breakdown of our Sunday School enrollment are accurate, declines in total membership and worship attendance, among other things, are going to be more frequent in the future.
We need a revival, a fire that ignites and spreads through the churches, to fall on receptive hearts prepared to be made uncomfortable by the movement of the Holy Spirit. It cannot be limited by our doctrinal gymnastics.
May 5th, 2008 at 8:51 am
A Very Big Announcement Coming Today regarding SBC PRESIDENT!
May 5th, 2008 at 10:33 am
I’m confused here. According to the LifeWay graphs, membership has been increasing since 1950, but the increase in membership has been in decline. I don’t really see a dramatic trend.
Also, aren’t claims that we rely on the Holy Spirit or preaching of the gospel to increase growth saying that the destiny of the SBC is in our hands and what we do. How is that different from saying that growth can be manufactured? Also, how can one account fro growth during the heretical “Liberal” years?
Just asking serious honest questions…